Unofficial Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance Chat
Unofficial Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance chat on February 25, 2002 in #blackisle on irc.gamesnet.net.
Edited log created by MageDragon (http://www.planetbaldursgate.com)
In attendance from Black Isle Studios were:
BIS_Darren - Darren Monahan (Producer)
BIS_Kevin_Osburn - Kevin Osburn (Line Producer)
BloodLust: - Tex Yang (Quality Assurance)
In attendance from Snowblind Studios were:
SB_RyanGeithman - Ryan Geithman (Programmer)
SB_BrianJohnson - Brian Johnson (Artist)
SB_Jason - Jason Wiggin (Artist)
*** Dani sets mode: +m
SB_BrianJohnson: Are we being graded?
Dani: OK people, welcome to the QA session
Dani: first question was asked by Xandar
Dani: Xandar: you have the podium :)
Xandar: Why is Drizzt a playable character? I mean, come on...
SB_RyanGeithman: Xandar: That's a question?
Xandar: he should be some PC you meet, not be able to join you...
SB_BrianJohnson: I thought everyone liked Drizzt.
Xandar: I do.
Xandar: I just find it weird to have him be in your party.
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: We thought it would be cool to be able to play as him
SB_RyanGeithman: Xandar: Why?
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: We actually got a lot of requests to put him in on our Message Boards
Xandar: I dunno, I mean, you're just this little party traveling along, and then someone well known and powerful like him just joins you?
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: He was never meant to be an intrical part in the story
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: Just a fun little easter egg
Xandar: I just find it odd, anyways, you can just go to the next question, as I am the only one who probably thinks this...
SB_RyanGeithman: Xandar: Well he doesn't really "join" you. He's more like a secret bonus character you unlock after you win the game and then beat it again in extreme mode.
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: next
Dani: Next Question was given by MageDragon
Dani: MageDragon: you have the podium
MageDragon: How hard was it to program the small background things like, the trees moving with the wind and blur effects over fires and torches?
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: Ryan, this is your area of expertise ;)
SB_RyanGeithman: The trees moving in the wind was an animation that the artists made.
MageDragon: I have 4 other questions as well ;)
BIS_Darren: 8)
SB_BrianJohnson: A lot of those little things were snazzy by-products of how the engine worked.
SB_RyanGeithman: The blur effect was programmed by Ezra. He's not in the chat.
MageDragon: The concept behind the Onyx Golem model, Sinbad the sailor?
BIS_Darren: lol
SB_BrianJohnson: Heh...
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: nice one
SB_Jason: John Van Deusen's not here to answer that one
MageDragon: Who's idea was it to put the Displacer Beasts in an area with water? (Very nice effects, btw)
SB_Jason: about the Onyx Golem that is
SB_RyanGeithman: MageDragon: I thought it would be cool. I had this really elaborate cut scene in mind for when the displacer beasts get introduced. It ended up kind of dorky though.
SB_Jason: I wouldn't say that, it turned out fine
SB_BrianJohnson: We had hoped to do that with every creature originally... a lot of work though
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: The Displacer Beasts were actually very popular, even at E3 when Darren and I demoing the game
SB_BrianJohnson: Plus it yanks you from the game flow...
MageDragon: The drunk in the bar of Act I. Is that Darren Monahan or Feargus Urquhart? ::grin::
BIS_Darren: By the guys, I dunno if you introduced everyone, Brian and Jason are artists from Snowblind and Ryan is a programmer
SB_RyanGeithman: MageDragon: Neither
BIS_Darren: Hahahaha, I always thought it looked a little like Steve Buscemi (sic) :)
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: A combination of both ;)
MageDragon: okay last one for now..and you knew it had to happen....
MageDragon: The ending to BG:DA was very much open ended. Plans for a sequel?
BIS_Darren: :)
SB_Jason: : )
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: Knew this one was coming, but unfortunately we can't talk about that right now
MageDragon: thanks guys
MageDragon: :)
BIS_Darren: Sadly, have to use the official party line: Can't talk about it right now :(
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: Thank you MageDragon
SB_Jason: next flurry of questions
SB_RyanGeithman: Hey where's Wollan? What's a BGDA chat without wollan?
Dani: Himo: you have the podium now
Himo: All right.
SB_BrianJohnson: what's Jason wearing?
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: I think I sent Wollan a PM about the chat
SB_RyanGeithman: Brian Johnson: Nothing
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: Hi Himo
Himo: As a project, this meet or exceed your expectations?
SB_BrianJohnson: nothing but a wool hat.
BIS_Darren: Nothing but a plate helm and boots
SB_Jason: you guys are making me blush
SB_BrianJohnson: Which expectations? We're all very pleased with how it was received by the players.
SB_RyanGeithman: Himo: I can only speak for myself but Dark Alliance is the best game we've ever made. There is always room for improvement though and it's hard to say if it met expectations. I think most game developers have pretty crazy visions in their head of what the game will end up being. It never ends up being close to that though.
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: I think we are all happy with the way BGDA turned out. Of course there are things we wished we could have done, but just didn't have the time
Himo: financial, acclaim, whatever
SB_RyanGeithman: Himo: financial definitely not. I expected the game to sell 2 million units! :)
SB_RyanGeithman: just kidding
Himo: sorry for my slow dialup
SB_Jason: yeah, I only saw the things that were missing...but on a whole it turned out well.
BIS_Darren: Bad Internet Explorer bad bad bad
SB_RyanGeithman: Yea Jason has a good point. We tend to only notice glitches and things that aren't as good as they could be
Himo: allright, thanks
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: Speaking for myself, I loved working on BGDA. I actually spent a month at Snowblind with a couple testers ironing out the final kinks. The guys at Snowblind made it a pleasant trip for us, and they were fun to work with
SB_Jason: As was working with you guys
BIS_Darren: cool it says we're from vault-zero.interplay.com. Sweet.
Dani: I have a question actually...how did BiS decide to make a console game, and as a follow up, how did the partnership with Snowblind begin?
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: next question
BIS_Darren: BloodLust, or Tex the ladies man as we call him here, was one of the crazy testers on the game.
BloodLust: Rumors, all rumors :)
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: He was one of the lucky ones to spend a month at Snowblind
SB_BrianJohnson: E3 2000?
SB_RyanGeithman: Dani: I can answer the 2nd part. We made a demo on the PC for a 3d action RPG. We showed it to many publishers. Finally we got one that wanted to develop it. It took nine months to eventually sign the contract.
BIS_Darren: Dani: From the BIS side of things, we wanted to get into making console RPG's as well. We're all huge fans of all types of video games, PC and otherwise, and the Snowblind boys came down to our office and demoed their engine.
SB_RyanGeithman: E3 1999 is when we met with Feargus
Dani: thanks :)
SB_BrianJohnson: ah... oops.
BloodLust: Though being labeled as one from the master himself is quite an honor :)
SB_Jason: I know time flies
Dani: I believe LordChaos has a question as well
LordChaos2: Heh, it got partially answered
LordChaos2: How was it like for Snowblind Studios to work on a RPG with such a strong foundation in the PC world?
SB_Jason: I think the real challenge was making the game fun and interesting, despite the games origins
SB_RyanGeithman: LordChaos: It was pretty cool. I think the backlash could have been a lot worse. We tried to make it clear from the beginning that this was a totally different style of game from PC Baldur's Gate. I think for the most part we got that message across. There are always people that will be mad though.
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: That's the hard part of this business, it is virtually impossible to please everybody.
LordChaos2: What was the hardest challenge in making a console RPG?
SB_BrianJohnson: Yeah... there was a lot of talk about us porting BG to the ps2 in the beginning. People calmed after they began to see it was really different
SB_Jason: We can't even please ourselves
SB_Jason: hardest part was doing something that people believed would work on a next generation console
SB_BrianJohnson: either content creation or making the save game fit on one memory card...
SB_RyanGeithman: Ooh yea. Lip synching all those NPCs was a pain.
SB_RyanGeithman: We'll never do that again!!! I mean.. err.. yea we will.
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: yeah, but the lip synching turned out great
LordChaos2: Ever thought of doing a Fallout for PS/2?
SB_RyanGeithman: LC2: Thought about it.
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: I am sure everybody has thought about it
SB_RyanGeithman: LC2: I think the FO fans are pretty hard core though. They would probably attack us.
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: lol
LordChaos2: I think it would break new grounds, I really don't recall anything similar being made for the PS/2
SB_Jason: I already feel sorry for Chris Avellone being attacked
SB_RyanGeithman: Jason: someone attacked Chris Avellone?
SB_Jason: by those blood thirsty FO purists
SB_RyanGeithman: Oh
SB_BrianJohnson: Those Vault jumpsuits are pretty cool...
LordChaos2: Don't worry, most of us are fans...not purists ;)
LordChaos2: And we wouldn't kill you
LordChaos2: Actually I think it would be a cool thing for PS2
SB_Jason: I agree
SB_BrianJohnson: How many bottle caps is it worth to you?
LordChaos2: With both BG-DA and Fallout, I would definitely buy a PS/2
Dani: Q: how was it to develop a rpg title for a medium, which is practically defined by final fantasy and similar anime-rpgs?
SB_RyanGeithman: Dani: I thought it was great doing something totally different than FF. Of course there is no way we could have competed head to head with Final Fantasy so we kind of HAVE to do something different
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: I would definitely agree with Ryan on that one
SB_BrianJohnson: FF is completely different game style too... That the fun of the rpg genre.
SB_RyanGeithman: We really should have added random unavoidable combats every 5-7 seconds though
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: We should have had spells that take 2 minutes to cast as well :)
SB_BrianJohnson: heh... some of our dialogue trees were fairly long though.
Dani: was it hard to market a "new kind of rpg" to the console players?
SB_Jason: I just want to know how many people tried to go through all the dialog branches in the game
SB_RyanGeithman: Dani: I think so. I don't think this style is as main stream on consoles. The only comparable titles are the PSX Port of Diablo 1, the PSX Port of Darkstone, and Record of Lodoss war.
Dani: Doomsayer: you have the podium
SB_Jason: Record of Lodoss War was cool
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: Dani: We definitely kept that in mind while making BGDA. We had several meetings a week just to make sure that this RPG will appeal to most players :)
BloodLust: Hey, I did that... :)
Doomsayer: Speaking of purist, which I am one of, do you take in consideration of us when creating a game such as BGDA?
SB_Jason: I know you did Tex
BloodLust: Hey you didn't say it had to be someone that didn't work on the title :P
SB_Jason: I would say that we listen as much as any other concerned developers
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: Our Message Boards came in handy during development
SB_BrianJohnson: Well, we knew that our take on the universe would be highly questioned by the BG purists.
SB_Jason: you guys are our bread and butter and the heralders of our reputation
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: We read them as much as possible gathering input that we could possibly implement into BGDA
BIS_Darren: Doomsayer: Absolutely. We ourselves lean toward purism (is that a word?) but realize that in order to make a successful game, you have to do some other things to draw in a larger crowd. We take both sides of the coin and try and find a way that works best for everyone. Sometimes the decision is right, sometimes it isn't.
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: We understand that you guys buy the game, so we keep that in mind
BloodLust: Yeah, usually both sides of the coin are thought about, I remember going through the games many a time thinking, "Now if I was a player, would this totally peeve me off?"
SB_BrianJohnson: Now with 15% less peeving!
BIS_Darren: lol
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: Did Baldurer already ask a question?
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: I know he must have some :)
LordChaos2: Doomsayer: You have another question, ask away
SB_RyanGeithman: Where is Decado and DDaryl? We need controversy.
SB_Jason: CON-TRO-VERSY
Doomsayer: The main complaint that I had and the majority of my friends had with BGDA was the shortness of the primary story. If a sequel was to be made, will you guys strive to create a longer game in the main storyline or keep the same length but had in side quests?
SB_RyanGeithman: Doomsayer: If we created a similar game in the future we would definitely strive to make the whole game much longer
SB_Jason: and better in every aspect possible
SB_RyanGeithman: Doomsayer: I don't think most of us even realized the game would be so short for the average gamer until it came out
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: I think that if a sequel were to be made, we would of course look at the feedback we have received from BGDA, that's of course if a sequel is made
SB_RyanGeithman: yea hopefully our next game makes BGDA look like crap in every respect
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: Ryan is right, none of realized people would be able to get through the game so quickly
SB_Jason: That's very true
Dani: Baldurer: you have the podium
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: We originally thought it would take around 15-20 hours at least
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: Hey Baldurer :)
Baldurer Hey, Kevin.
SB_Jason: My wife and son played the game, and clocked it at 22 hours
SB_RyanGeithman: We'll remove the timer from our next game! ;)
SB_Jason: but you guys are definitely more game experience
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: It really all depends on the gamer, but that is something we will have to correct next time, with what ever game we make next
BIS_Darren: lol
SB_BrianJohnson: Yeah... didn't you guys just stop and admire the artwork?
Baldurer: What were the major factors in your decision to make combat real time rather than turn based?
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: I spent an hour running in the water...And another half hour looking at the torches and the heat displacement
SB_Jason: I'm going to be attacked I know but it seems to me, just to me, that a real time version of any game is better than a turn based one
SB_Jason: except Chess
SB_RyanGeithman: Baldurer: Essentially we wanted to bring the Diablo style experience to a console. We never had the intention of creating a turn based RPG so it never really entered our thinking. Part of the reason may be that turn based RPG's on consoles that don't have a Final Fantasy in front of their name don't do so well usually
SB_Jason: unless you're talking Archon
SB_BrianJohnson: We wanted an action rpg... it lends itself well to the console. I really like some aspects of the PC BG real/turn based fighting. But that doesn't translate well to PS2
SB_RyanGeithman: Yea even BG on the PC is real-time but pause able
BIS_Darren: Hehe, Archon. That game was sweet.
BloodLust: Ahh yes memories of capturing the last power node... :)
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: Baldurer: To keep up with the pace of the game like we wanted it, it just made more sense to make it real time instead of turn based. There was also a concern regarding how this game would be if it were turn based
SB_RyanGeithman: And actually isn't NWN real-time as well? Oops I guess I shouldn't talk about NWN
Baldurer: Is a nonlinear RPG even possible on the PS2?
BIS_Darren: Hey by the way Ryan, there's a bug in the timer counter; I think it's displaying half the real time :)
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: Overall, BGDA was intended to be an action packed adventure.
SB_RyanGeithman: Baldurer: Sure. The platform has nothing to do with it.
SB_RyanGeithman: Darren: exactly!
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: Baldurer: I am sure it is possible
SB_BrianJohnson: Yeah... there are limitations without a hard drive, etc, but it's not impossible.
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: Nothing is impossible :)
SB_RyanGeithman: You could have BG or BG2 on the PS2 no problem. Of course it would be kind of lame without a mouse.. Those probably qualify as non-linear RPG's
Dani: Follow-up: is the console crowd also more inclined to buy a linear game than a nonlinear one?
SB_RyanGeithman: Dani: GTA3 is nonlinear
SB_RyanGeithman: Dani: It's totally dominating the sales charts
SB_BrianJohnson: The mass market, sure... but look at... oh Ryan beat me.
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: GTA3 is outselling MGS2 last I checked
SB_RyanGeithman: KO: Yea by a large margin
LordChaos2: They are probably saturated with linear games and soaked it up like a sponge ;)
BIS_Darren: That game is eating my life away too...
Dani: MageDragon has some more Qs
BIS_Darren: Jason I bet
MageDragon: just one more
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: GTA3 has consumed a lot of our lives
MageDragon: After playing so many CRPGs (of course all the Infinity Engine games) and killing so many undead. I just wanted to say I found the upper half of a zombie crawling after me with his arms extremely funny. Whose idea was it to have that going on and the ones with no heads and arms running in circles?
SB_RyanGeithman: MageDragon: John Van Deusen (artist) created them so I would assume he would take the credit for that idea?
SB_BrianJohnson: John, our head animator and I were talking about famous Zombies from other games.
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: I still remember when I first saw this on my PS2, I was laughing hysterically thinking this was the coolest thing ever....To have a headless, and armless zombie chasing you is really funny
MageDragon: who is behind/what is the concept behind ;)
SB_BrianJohnson: ...I told him about some of my favorites and he took it to the extreme... he rocks.
Dani: Doomsayer also has another one
Doomsayer: Has Snowblind ever created a polished PC game and if so which is easier to program, PC or PS2?
SB_RyanGeithman: Doomsayer: Snowblind hasn't but we have developed PC titles in the past at various companies. The original demo for Dark Alliance ran only on a PC. I would have to say without doubt the PS2 is a lot harder to develop for.
SB_RyanGeithman: It's not even close
SB_RyanGeithman: The only negative thing about PC's (the fact that they are non standard) is pretty much going away to do API's improving (directx, openGL)
Dani: What makes it harder?
SB_Jason: And as for the artwork involved the magnitude quadrupled
SB_Jason: and that's low balling it
SB_RyanGeithman: Dani: Well everything has to run in 32 megs. You only get 4 megs for your frame buffer (and all your textures) Just to get a model up and running is difficult to program
SB_BrianJohnson: And PC dev kits are cheaper.
SB_RyanGeithman: On the PC you just use API's (DirectX or openGL) on the PS2 to get good performance you have to write micro code to do precisely what you want
SB_Jason: of course it's tailored
SB_Jason: so it's more efficient for end results
Dani: What platform and development tools did you use in the creation process?
Doomsayer: Do any of you have experience programming on the XBOX or Gamecube yet?
SB_RyanGeithman: Dani: Our dev stuff runs off Linux. The programmers use the GNU C compiler
SB_Jason: Art: Photoshop and 3DStudios Max
SB_BrianJohnson: 3DS Max, Photoshop...
SB_BrianJohnson: winamp...
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: winamp......lol
SB_Jason: true
BIS_Darren: Doh, I have to split. Thanks you guys, take it easy!
SB_RyanGeithman: Bye Darren
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: bye Darren...see you soon
SB_BrianJohnson: bye
SB_Jason: Later Darren take it easy
LordChaos2: You too, thanks for coming, Darren
BloodLust: Cya Darren
SB_Jason: Darren is the producer btw if nobody knew
LordChaos2: Question: How did you like our little IRC channel here, this was our first developer chat in the channels 1½ month lifetime, did you find things satisfactory or is there anything else you would like to see added?
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: Darren was the Producer...I was the Line Producer for BGDA
SB_BrianJohnson: I'm just as confused by this IRC client as I am by the others.
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: I think it went well...You guys did a great job
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: I am not too familiar with IRC client either
LordChaos2: Thank you, thanks for not starting out with a IWD2 dev chat...that would have been murder to try out on for the first time
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: Does anyone have anymore questions about BGDA?
LordChaos2: One more question from Lorthos
Lorthos: Hey... not really about BG:DA
Lorthos: But I was wondering what you thought of the upcoming Linux kit for the PS2? Just for hobbyists, or do you think you could use it as pro developers?
SB_BrianJohnson: The LCD looks nifty keen...
SB_Jason: I'm curious if there are game developers here not from SB or BIS
SB_RyanGeithman: Lorthos: I don't really know enough about it to answer that intelligently. I thought there were some reason professionals wouldn't want to use it but as I said I don't know much about it. I think it would be difficult to develop on the PS2 as an amateur. It would make a lot more sense to buy a GeForce3 and use DirectX or openGL
Lorthos: That's all I had :) Unless you can explain the technique used to make the water look so cool in BG:DA :)
LordChaos2: Does healthcare software count ;)
SB_BrianJohnson: We made it wiggle... it's all in the wiggling.
SB_RyanGeithman: Lorthos: Ezra is giving a talk at the Sony Developers conference and might talk about it there so if you want to hear.. Go to the dev. conference. ;)
SB_Jason: do you receive a score
SB_RyanGeithman: SB_Jason: 68.3
SB_RyanGeithman: :)
SB_RyanGeithman: Anything else?
SB_Jason: I have a question
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: Anymore questions guys?
Dani: MageDragon has one more
SB_BrianJohnson: asl?
BIS_Kevin_Osburn: lol
SB_RyanGeithman: BJ: Advanced Squad leader?
MageDragon: Why does the girl on the case look like Laura Croft?
MageDragon: :)
SB_RyanGeithman: MageDragon: the girl on the cover is the elf from the game. I hadn't really noticed the Lara Croft connection.
MageDragon: No worries...it does look good
SB_RyanGeithman: I guess they both have good genetics?
MageDragon: Snowblind guys. Thanks for your time. Look for the upcoming area on PlanetBaldursGate.
MageDragon: :)
SB_RyanGeithman: MageDragon: cool!
SB_Jason: That's who you are
SB_BrianJohnson: thanks...@
MageDragon: yes sir
MageDragon: that is whom I am ;)
SB_Jason: got cha. thanks
SB_RyanGeithman: Thanks everyone..
LordChaos2: MageDragon :) PlanetBG is cool, excellent place
SB_BrianJohnson: Yeah thanks for playing!
Dani: thanks again to all you guys from BIS and Snwoblind :)
SB_RyanGeithman: Goodbye all!
SB_Jason: Yes thanks for coming everybody
SB_BrianJohnson: Did anyone find the secret Act yet?
*** Dani sets mode: -m
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